Nuances of the Fighting Genre

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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by MisterHentai »

The juggle heavy games are something I'm personally not really into as well, that's why I don't like Tekken, that's why I don't really like Marvel vs Capcom either, though I can understand fully what is going on and enjoy watching professional players competing at tournaments. One touch kill type fighters (Especially UMvC3) just aren't fun at all for me. Sure Virtua Fighter and Dead or Alive has juggles too, but they aren't as long winded and ridiculous. It's why I'm mainly a Street Fighter person. It just as the right pace for either a rushdown or strategically slower paced game. And there is a reason why it is still one of the most accessable fighting games out there.

SFIII 3rd Strike is quite easily the best on the Capcom side of things, but there are still a ton of others and it also depends on the style too.
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by .:Someone Else:. »

Yeah I think I would accept that if there was a way to counter it at some point...Like in UMVC3, you can actually call a team mate to stop the opponent's juggle IIRC...but in Tekken, nothing, you just have to wait and pray that he either misses a hit or suddenly faints.

And well, I actually love to watch professional playing, I do it a lot on Twitch, for TTT2 and UMVC3...I admit i rather watch UMVC3, it's more spectacular...on the other hand, I liek watching TTT2, but, even though I'm not playing, sometimes just seeing juggles just gets me mad...i mean, most of the time I'm like "wow, impressive" but when it goes the whole match, I'm getting bored...it's just two guys shaking around like having epilepsy fit and then a launch, and juggle, juggle, juggle, and here we go, same thing again...I don't know, not my thing, really lol

That said, I have a hard time finding DOA5 live streams, so I guess pros really prefer huge juggles...
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by MisterHentai »

The only time you can really tag in UMvC3 is if your character is safe for a while to hard tag them in/out or if you want go for a TAC (Team Aerial Combo) or DHC (Delayed Hyper Combo). Otherwise if you get caught in an endless combo juggle into Hypers or an impressive looking TAC infinite loop, you are absolutely done for. You just can't do shit but sit there and watch in awe as your character potentially dies and there is nothing you can do about it, not unless a combo is dropped and you get to have a small chance of recovery. That's why this game can be one touch kill. The only time you can really break out of something is if you guess correctly during a TAC and even then afterwards it will be random.

But yeah, the game is incredibly awesome and hype to watch when high-level play is concerned, but playing it yourself, man it will piss you off. :LOL:

Peaceful Jay used to do 24/7 DOA5 streams for a while around the time the game came out, but now it's mainly back to UMvC3. 8WayRun may occasionally do some but it's mostly Soul Calibur V and other random stuff from what I mostly see.
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by ProtocolX27 »

I agree w/ what you guys are sayin'

I threw in the towel on the Marvel Crossovers mostly during MvC2 arcade days. I thought I had an ounce of skill, but even when doing basic tags I'd watch both my active and tag partner get ripped to shreds. I didn't have the cash to burn on that all day. :P

Another challenge I've had w/ Capcom games is that I 'used' to think games were balanced until my friend provided to me that in SFA2 there were certain ways Zangief could not defeat Akuma, :lol: Having different movement and jump physics per character and no basic strike standardization opens the door for imbalance. :(
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by MisterHentai »

Did you suffer the wrath of MSS? :lol:

Funny thing is with MvC 1 I'm pretty okay with that game since the air juggles and such aren't too ridiculous, but from MvC2 and especially UMvC3, ugh......! :?
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by iheartibuki »

Man, these salty Tekken tears are so delicious! HA HA HA!!! J/K :D

I understand why Tekken gets a lot of hate because of the juggle system, after all when your characters are up there in the air there is pretty much nothing you can do unless your opponent drops his/her combos. But why I don't understand is why people hail Tekken 3's mechanics as the, if not one of the, best the series has ever produced. It is archaic, slow and most of all, mashy. If you want to complain about one touch moves or few attacks that would kill your opponent instantly this game is where it's at. What people don't realize is that the 80% damage attacks that you see in the latest Tekken games take more hits to do, require very strict timing on the juggles, which means it's tougher to pull off than what you can do back in Tekken 3. In T3, you can do the same amount of damage in probably about 5 hits, and that doesn't require much skill.

The people who you guys see do these 80%, 12-14 hit combos on streams are pros, meaning they eat, live, breathe and sleep Tekken. That's a very small percentage of an already small population of pre-hardcore Tekken players worldwide. Your intermediate players are probably able to do about half the number of hits to about 3/5 of that number, and that ain't much damage compared to what you can do in Tekken 3 and the earlier games.

I personally think the bound system is a welcome addition to the game especially it's pretty much remained the same throughout all its iterations. It's just a natural evolution for a game that has juggles for its mechanics, and makes for interesting follow ups, just don't be on the receiving end of it.

I have to say though, they need to tone that netsu (rage system) down. I agree with Hentai in that I also don't like comeback mechanics. Why should you be rewarded for sucking? It gives less incentive for people to up their game and learn how to use their characters more effectively.

The other thing that I like about the Tekken games is that the buttons are limb based. To me it's completely logical to have your limbs as separate attack buttons. It definitely requires more skill than DOA's mashy system.

Anyway, I'm very happy that TTT2 will show up in this year's Evolution 2K13. It's odd that DOA5 got beat by a 2 year old game like MK9 though, but then again the fighting game community has never really taken this game seriously (TN, bad move on the excessive fan service). You can bet I'll be a stream monster on the semis and grand finals. :)


EDIT: Shoutouts to the guy who said he likes 3rd Strike. Really great fighter IMO, just wish it had more interesting characters and it was more balanced. Love the parry system. :)
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by MisterHentai »

Well the general U.S FGC from what I see doesn't take alot of other games seriously unless it it mostly Capcom games. Tekken comes as no surprise for 3D fighters since it is the most successful of them all in that area and you have the legacy of the PlayStation era helping with that too.

The argument for why lots of people keep saying Tekken 3 all the time even though it is so old and archaic now is probably because like many older games, it was much simpler. Same can be said for people who prefer good ol' SSFIIT or Virtua Fighter 2.
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by iheartibuki »

^ Yep, very true, and that's why it is Capcom USA that owns the Street Fighter brand. It's probably the universal language of fighting games, in that you see a lot of people from all walks of life playing it and becoming good at the game. I personally am having a hard time getting into the 1-frame links of the SFIV games, too strict IMO, but very rewarding when you connect though. BTW, did you see Ono's tweet today about him wanting to do another update?

To be honest, I wish DOA made it in instead of MK (NRS has totally ditched the game for Injustice and PL always wins with his OP Kung Lao anyway) but I guess that would give us 2 3D fighters that look very similar to the untrained eye and most fighting game fanatics find 3D fighters boring anyway, probably because they don't have the flashy fireballs and combos commonly seen in the likes of the versus games and SF itself.
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by MisterHentai »

MK9 is still a IPL or MGL game I think so it's all about the money and catering and gathering that crowd for more exposure. Besides they probably gotta have at least one decent "Western" made fighting game for variety. :lol:

Can't be arsed with another SF update. Seriously, the Internet and hand holding generation today whines and complains too much about everything.
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Re: Nuances of the Fighting Genre

Post by iheartibuki »

Haha you're probably right. I don't really follow the politics of fighting games that much, but I believe I read something along the lines of what you said.

I read somewhere though that there are unblockables in AE'12, so if that's the case I'm open to an update as long as it's free just like the last game. At least they can keep an aging game fresh by changing things up a bit. But ya, I agree that most kids nowadays prefer to whinge instead of actually working on their weaknesses, and it's the fault of Internet-enabled consoles with hard drives in them. XD
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