Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

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ProtocolX27
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Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by ProtocolX27 »

Since I've seen some really awesome renders lately, I'd like to step my game up a bit. The main question is how...

What would everyone recommend in terms of applications / basic techniques in order to learn advanced rendering? I haven't touched 3dsmax in years and still haven't dabbled in Blender rendering yet. I've seen lots of terminology and app names tossed around, but I have no clue where to start or what would yield the best results. I'm open to taking advice from all of you pro's. 8-)
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by FigureSculptor »

If you're looking to go beyond what XNALara can do, you're going to need to go with a general purpose 3D program like 3DS Max, Blender, Maya, Modo, etc. (though I've seen people produce pretty amazing work with DAZ Studio and Poser, also). As to which program you should use, that's something you'll likely get a lot of opinions on, including some very strong ones. But, the simple truth of the matter is that all of them are capable programs, and which one you like best is going to depend on a number of factors, not the least of which is your personal preference, so I'm not going to tell you which one you should use. All of the major 3D programs can be used to great result.

Most of them also have free trials you can download (and Blender is, of course, free), and there are many video tutorials on YouTube and Vimeo for all of them, so that's really your starting point.

To take things even further, you probably want to add a digital sculpting app like ZBrush or Mudbox, if you can afford it, or Sculptris if you don't want to spend cash. These will allow you to sculpt the various details that you would normally get from a normal or bump map plus specular map. This will let you add the fine details like pores, scars, and cloth textures that will bring your image to life and look more real. Many of the general purpose 3D programs have a sculpting mode of some kind but, generally speaking, these usually aren't as good at working at really high poly levels as the dedicated sculpting programs, though you can work around that by breaking the model up into pieces for sculpting.

For rendering, most of the 3D programs have very capable renderers built-in, and most also support external renderers like Vray, Mental Ray, RenderMan, Aqsis, etc. For starters, stick with the built-in renderer for the app you choose. Using an external renderer adds a lot of complexity to what can already be a daunting process and is best done after you have the basics down. You can get quite good results using the default renderers.

Personally, I use Blender combined with Zbrush, though I'm looking forward to the day when Blender's sculpting mode is good enough so I can ditch ZBrush altogether. ZBrush is a phenomnal program, but I find the UI awkward and slow to use. If you're not interested in using Blender, then stop reading now. :P Blender and ZBrush are the only programs I can give feedback on, because they're what I use.

Unfortunately, there's just not really a quick shortcut to getting good results. All modern 3D programs are complex and there are a lot of factors that go into what makes a good image. Composition (how the figure(s), props, and settings are arranged in the scene relative to the camera), the lighting, the pose, the textures, the camera settings there are literally thousands of different values, settings, and options you can set, and it's all pretty daunting at first. Even if you're using characters modeled by others, there's a lot to know and understand to create good images and you're not going to create phenomenal renders your first try. There's an awful lot of trial and error involved in making something that looks really nice.

If you're willing to give Blender a try, this tutorial series will give you a LOT of information about how to get really realistic human renders. It's focused on the head, but most of the information applies equally to the entire figure.

http://cgcookie.com/blender/2012/06/13/ ... d-blender/

It shows the basics of using three-layer sub-surface scattering to create very realistic looking skin (among other things), but it's an advanced tutorial that assumes you know the basics of Blender already. There's a book on WikiBooks that's pretty comprehensive about Blender's basic functionality, and has mostly been kept up to date:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro

This set of videos is very comprehensive. It goes at a slow pace, which is good for some people, and frustrating for others:

http://gryllus.net/Blender/3D.html

There are also several sites devoted to Blender tutorials:

http://www.blenderguru.com
http://www.blenderguru.com

And, when in doubt, you can usually find tutorials on just about any specific task by googling or searching YouTube.

When it comes down to it, the answer is you need to play. You need to learn the software package(s) you're going to use. You need to do tutorials, and then change settings to see what they do, and you need to be willing to spend time. A lot of time. If there's a secret to getting your renders to the next level, it's probably time. It takes a lot of time to get a good image and a lot more time to learn what you need to know to even begin the process.

So yeah. I hope I didn't totally scare you off there, but it's best to be honest about what's involved and the fact that there's no silver bullet. While there may be arcane knowledge that the people creating great renders know that you don't, none of it allows them to churn out amazing images without a lot of work.
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by Dazzy »

WOAH LOADS OF WRITING xD

Id suggest to start of with Blender. Its pretty simple to use, Marv easily got renders done in it ;D
Or... try out Keyshot, its pretty simple but the trial renders have "Keyshot" plastered all over em so they are crap xD
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by ProtocolX27 »

Thanks FigureSculptor / Daz, :)

@FS, that's a very helpful write-up. Much appreciated. I already have hefty experience with Blender, so sounds like that will probably be the best place for me to start. I saw a demo of Zbrush a couple of years ago, but since I'm not really a modeller and don't really create anything from scratch, I probably wouldn't even know where to begin. Thanks for summing everything up.

@Daz, so has anyone done much with Keystone here? Just looked it up, looks pricey, :shock:
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by Dazzy »

Keyshot ya mean xD Yeah, I have, its pretty easy and a good renderer tbh :)
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by ProtocolX27 »

I shall investigate more on it later then when using less suspicious interwebz.
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by Dazzy »

These were made in Keyshot for examples :)
http://trdaz.deviantart.com/#/d5o7819
http://trdaz.deviantart.com/gallery/32796461#/d5cqbu0
http://trdaz.deviantart.com/gallery/32796461#/d57b4gk

You can use HDRI images to have real life light sources ;)
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by Ventrue »

Uhm... I don't mean to discourage you, or say that KeyShot is not a useful tool, but it is not really the good thing to get you started. I mean... If you really wanna get into rendering stuff, then using KeyShot won't provide you any experience to move onto more complex renderer engines. I recommend Blender or 3ds Max. There's a huge amount of video tutorials on how to get the best out of both of these programs...
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by Love2Raid »

I also wouldn't recommend Keyshot... I tried it out, once, and while it can give nice looking results in a short time (it's easy to use), it is very limited. It's sort of like XNALara, but more advanced. You can't manipulate the geometry in any way. Say if you wanted to smooth an ugly looking part of the model a bit, or move some polys that stick out through another mesh to the back, you wouldn't be able to do this. It's just too limited, and it won't force you to learn much more.

I would recommend Blender. It's really useful and absolutely free. It has an active and helpful community and people are still working hard to improve it and update it. You can get very nice results with both the internal engine and the cycles engine. Yes, it takes time to learn how to work with it and the camera is annoying at first, but you will get used to it eventually. There are heaps of tutorials out there. So why don't you give it a shot? :)
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Re: Rendering Suggestions / Where to Start (?)

Post by Dazzy »

I only recommended it because it is pretty simple to use, but I agree with both of you, Blender is a good beginning choice :)
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